In this episode of Scalpel and Sword, Dr. Lee Sharma interviews Dr. Joseph Losee, a leader in academic medicine who wears many hats: pediatric plastic surgeon, Associate Dean for Faculty Affairs, co-chair of UPMC’s Physician Wellness Initiative, and founder of Clarity Med Strategies. Dr. Joseph Losee reveals how coaching, mediation, and self-awareness save careers, prevent burnout, and transform healthcare culture.
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What happens when a pediatric plastic surgeon becomes a master of conflict resolution?
From program director to mediator-in-training, Dr. Losee shares how his journey from educator to conflict expert evolved and why coaching isn’t therapy, mentoring, or advice-giving. It’s a structured process of calibration, connection, and transformation that helps physicians answer: Where am I? How did I get here? And where do I want to go?
He breaks down the real-world challenges of faculty conflict, far messier than resident issues, the rise of pre-litigation mediation through programs like AHRQ’s CANDOR, and why CMS is now scoring hospitals on early dispute resolution. Plus, how peer coaching at UPMC is reducing burnout, boosting retention, and creating psychologically safer workplaces with data to prove it.
Whether you're a burned-out attending, a new department chair, or a leader building a better culture, this episode delivers the tools to lead with clarity.
Three Actionable Takeaways:
About the Show:
Behind every procedure, every patient encounter, lies an untold story of conflict and negotiation. Scalpel and Sword, hosted by Dr. Lee Sharma—physician, mediator, and guide—invites listeners into the unseen battles and breakthroughs of modern medicine. With real conversations, human stories, and practical tools, this podcast empowers physicians to reclaim their voices, sharpen their skills, and wield their healing power with both precision and purpose.
About the Guest:
Dr. Joseph E. Losee is the Dr. Ross H. Musgrave Endowed Chair of Pediatric Plastic Surgery, Executive Vice Chair of Plastic Surgery at UPMC, and Vice Dean for Faculty Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. A former residency program director and past President of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, he co-chairs UPMC’s Physician Wellness Initiative and serves on the Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine. Through his firm Clarity Med Strategies, he is a board-certified executive coach and trained mediator, helping physicians resolve conflict, build self-awareness, and prevent burnout with peer coaching and pre-litigation mediation programs.
📍 Connect with Dr. Losee
About the Host:
Dr. Lee Sharma is a gynecologist based in Auburn, AL, with over 30 years of clinical experience. She holds a Master’s in Conflict Resolution and is passionate about helping colleagues navigate workplace challenges and thrive through open conversations and practical tools.
[00:00:00] Hello, my peaceful warriors. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst, and I am so excited to have on the podcast today Dr. Joseph Losee. Dr. Losee is the Dr. R Ross h Musgrave endowed Chair of Pediatric Plastic Surgery, and the executive vice chair of the Department of Plastic Surgery at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.
He serves as the Associate Dean for Faculty Affairs and an advisory dean for the students at the School of Medicine. He is the co-chair of the UPMC Health System Physician Wellness Initiative. Since his arrival to Pitt in 2003, he has remained chief of the Division of Pediatric Plastic Surgery at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh of UPMC, and he's also the vice chair of the Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine.
In addition to all of this, Dr. Losee also has his own consulting firm, which is Clarity Med Strategies, [00:01:00] and they directly deal with teaching physicians conflict resolution strategy, and I am so excited to have him on the pod today. So Joe, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited you're here.
One of the things I really loved, 'cause every time when I have guests on the pod, I love to see what else they've done. Of course, I love to see their publications. I love to see their cv. And anybody who's busy enough to have a CV that has a table of contents is definitely really working hard and doing the amazing things.
And I admire so much of what you're doing. I think it's really cool that a lot of the work that you've done, you are working in administration, in academic medicine was that something you saw yourself getting into? Obviously you've got a huge clinical practice. You've done a lot of clinical experience as well in terms of craniofacial surgery with children, but did you see yourself as being a strong administrator as well when you launched into [00:02:00] medicine?
I was a teacher before I went to medical school, so I knew that, education was my thing. I wanted to be a teacher, and academic medicine and teaching was it, and early, on, I thought that would be. Training residents. And so my goal early on, if you would've said to me in the, mid nineties, what do you wanna do?
I wanted to be a program director, and mm-hmm. So that's what happened. I started practice in 2000. And in 2003, just by circumstance, and early opportunity for leadership, I was appointed The core residency program director and served in that role for 13 years and that really was my identity.
It was my personal and professional identity. It was what I was known about. I ended up becoming president of our Program Director Society. It really, led my way to the, American Board of Plastic Surgery. It was really what I thought that was it. And then I, kind of switched from GME to UME and got involved in [00:03:00] the medical school and the dean's office.
And that became my home. And I started out as an advisory dean for students and then an associate dean. Faculty now, vice Dean of Faculty Affairs. and so I didn't really think that I was gonna be, a full-time administrator or 90% an administrator, but it evolved that way, and I'm good with it.
Yeah. it feels like home.
I love that, especially because you saw your first identity as an educator, as a teacher, and that was something you really embraced and being able to bring that into your clinical practice. 'cause it's obviously a very strong part of who you are. Being able to bring that into clinical medicine, but also seeing how that journey evolved for you, that you went from being an educator to being a physician, to being a physician educator, and then working with other faculty members.
What surprised you when you started working with the other faculty members in that role?
I don't know if there was anything that was surprising, But I end up dealing with people problems and issues and I started [00:04:00] out doing that with the residents. So, 13 years as the den mother for 30 residents, which when I look back, will probably, I think, be the most rewarding and meaningful segment of my career because Yeah.
You know, our residents are there for six years. And a lot happens, a lot of life happens in six years and, I, mm-hmm. Spend to weddings and funerals and sat in the ER and pre-op and, parents' deaths and a lot of things happen and and you wanna have that depth of relationship, then you can really find meaning in being a residency program director.
Then I shifted to medical students and Wow. They had a whole lot of problems and issues too, but they were different. and then I moved to faculty and It's like having a kid, when they're a baby, they have a set of problems. They're easy to fix, boo boos to kiss, and then they can become teenagers and the problems get bigger, and then they become pre adults and adults and the problems are real.
And, so I've moved into faculty affairs and the problems just are more complicated and more nuanced and more [00:05:00] consequential I don't know if I was shocked by it, it's just a different set of problems to help fix.
Yeah. At what point in that journey did you really find that you started learning about and embracing this idea of conflict management?
Management? Yeah, definitely. That was 25 years ago,
but when you're the program director and then an advisory dean of students, the differential and the problems are more manageable and. Correctable, and you are much more senior. But when dealing with faculty issues, that's when serious conflict.
I realized I needed help, crucial conversations, difficult conversations, conflict resolution. and then that led me to become a board certified coach. And then, actually to become a true, educated mediator because The problems and the issues and the conflicts, you know, just really lend [00:06:00] themselves to, having, an advanced skillset in that way.
So I think I should have had it, 25 years ago, it would've helped me out a whole lot. But the tool belt, the skillset, certainly I think is critical for faculty affairs.
Oh my goodness. I think that's really cool that you recognize, looking back, that we all probably should start with learning this as we kind of embark on our professional journeys, that having conflict resolution skills would make so many things so much easier.
But I think it's really interesting as you got further and further on and you were dealing with people who were more collegial, that you really started to see this conflict come out in something that actually pushed you to get this different set of skills. This tool belt, which I love how you put that.
Was it easier to work with conflict with medical students and residents because you were more of their superior and you felt like you had more of a role in guiding that process as opposed to when you were dealing more with colleagues?
Yes. I think so. The problems are just different for medical students and for residents, [00:07:00] than for faculty.
I find the faculty. Interpersonal issues and the problems are, probably. Not a great analogy of having a toddler and then a teenager, and then an adult, but kind of similar, you know, like the medical student issues are getting to class and doing well in figuring out what they wanna do in life.
And then resident issues, usually performance based things. but faculty are, true conflict and I found those to be the more challenging issues to.
You mentioned when you were dealing with a faculty that, a lot of this, and I think it's really cool how you break this up in terms of students, in terms of residents, you know, that's more of a performance base.
And one of the things that's interesting about working with residents in performance based metrics is we have pretty clear benchmarks that we can look at, especially in surgical residencies. These are things that I expect to see from residents and so. In terms of working with those conflicts, you have a very clear, delineated set of things you're [00:08:00] looking for, but when you start talking about interpersonal things.
That's much muddier, that's much more gray. And that's something that we really have to take more knowledge for. One of the things that I love on your website for Clarity Med, is that you actually quote Socrates on the page, the Unexamined Life. Is not worth living, which is such a great quote.
How often do you feel like when you were working with colleagues, especially in this interpersonal conflict realm, that some of this was a lack of self-awareness or self-examination?
yes. You hit it. So what is coaching, right? So, yeah. A coach is someone totally different.
They're not an advisor, they're not a mentor, they're not a therapist, they're not a confidant. A coach is someone to help a coachee figure out, where am I? How did I get here? Why am I stuck? Why am I wanting, [00:09:00] why am I no longer, engaged? Why am I burned out? And then where do I wanna be? What do I wanna do?
Who do I wanna become? Where do I want to get to? What's my goal? And then the coach is an unbiased guide. To help facilitate that transition, that transformation journey, that discovery journey, the change journey, right? Coaching is the coach just creates an environment through calibrating and connecting to allow the coachee to have a transformation, an insight, an elevated.
Perspective.
Mm-hmm.
can't start that until you know where I am and how I got there. And that's all self-awareness. And that is the hardest thing is for someone to help someone get an awareness of where am I? How did I get here? So coaching really is an inward [00:10:00] self-exploration, a self-examination.
That's why I love that quote by Socrates. And, that's what coaching is all about. It's examining, you know, it's a deep inward examining of your life and taking stock of who you are, where you are, how you got there, and what you wanna be.
Wow. There's a word that you used as you started to describe that process, which is calibrating, and you use that in terms of calibrating and connecting.
So as you're calibrating with someone that you're coaching, you're really getting to know not only who they are when they're at their best, but also who they are when they're at their worst. You start to see what happens to them and actually understanding and calibrating with what they're like in their.
Really sometimes worse conflict situations. 'cause a lot of times I think that's what leads people to coaching. Do you find that a lot of people's gateway into this coaching realm is that they've had negative experiences or conflict professionally?
Yeah, for sure. people come to coaching for all kinds of reasons, right?
Sometimes [00:11:00] they're new department chairs, new society presidents, new executives, new CEOs who get coaching as a benefit of employment because Most people have recognized the benefit and power of coaching. So some people come just because, hey, this is a benefit of, you know, this preventative care.
It's a benefit of employment. And then some people come because they've been referred, like, listen, you better get some help because. You got an issue and the other option is not working here anymore. And then there are some who just are smart enough to know like, something's not right. I'm stuck, I'm starting to get burned out.
I need someone to talk to. I need some help. Mm-hmm. and they find a coach. So there are a lot of roads that lead to coaching and calibrate. Connect and educate is a cycle that goes throughout every coaching conversation that you can have with your teenager and your spouse and your report and your boss, just to make you a better human and better communicator.
That calibrating talks about [00:12:00] being With the individual that you care about and that you're working with, where are they? Are they depressed? Are they sad? Are they upset? Are they angry? And, using your emotional intelligence to calibrate. And then you can connect by therapeutic listening, deep, powerful questioning, naming, and label.
Reflecting and mirroring, and then reframe and those are the skill sets of a coach. And then you can educate. So when you are entrained and you are connected and the coachee knows that you're there and you care for them, then you can challenge them, then you can educate them, then you can push them with things.
Questions like, are you sure that the way you're looking at it in your perspective is really reality? Yeah. And then you can educate and that challenges them. Then you gotta go back and calibrate again, and then, reconnect, and then do some more education. And that's what coaching's all about.
I love that. And that's that process. we all need that [00:13:00] process, whatever level we are, you know, academically, professionally, I feel like that's something we all benefit from. Do you also find that sometimes people start seeking out coaching if they've had a negative clinical experience, let's say they had something bad happen to them from a clinical standpoint, does that sometimes become the impetus to seek coaching as well?
It, for sure it can. And A lot of places, a lot of school, you know, medical schools, academic health systems have these services. And we do at Pitt in UPMC, we have PFP Physicians, for Physicians, and it's a service that. Night or day? 24 hours a day, if you have a bad, clinical experience, you can call this hotline and be connected to a trained, peer, another physician
who's trained just to talk to somebody, because, we all have bad outcomes and particularly those that are new or younger in practice, it can be devastating and not having Someone Who you can talk to, to help, get through that difficult time. But coaching is [00:14:00] definitely, that's yet another route to coaching.
I love that. I think that's so cool that that's like a 24 7 service that if you have this happen at one o'clock in the morning, you're not waiting until 10:00 AM the next day because you've got all those emotions and you've got all this, and you've still gotta probably be on call or still see the next patient and to have somebody who can support you in that.
And I feel like in having those inevitable, that we have these outcomes, having that direct connection with another peer. So immediately can be so valuable. I also feel like one of the things that you are so good at, just looking at the work that you've done, is helping physicians understand how important it's to have processes like mediation in place.
Especially when we start talking about bad outcomes that could potentially lead to litigation. Is that something you've seen your skillset work for as well?
Well, it's something that, after I became a mediator, I don't wanna mediate. Divorces and family, custody and refrigerator [00:15:00] problems.
I became a mediator so that I could deal with interpersonal conflict with faculty. Mm-hmm. but also because, an interest that I've had, in, pre-litigation, early dispute resolution,
mm-hmm.
Through ation for medical harm. and that's something I'm getting into and am very interested in.
I think it's so awesome that you are getting into this because I think this is one of those things, especially as I've been doing this work and having people on the podcast and talking to physicians that most people aren't aware that this even exists. That all they really sort of see is, having the outcome and either,
Talking to the patient right then, or going right to litigation. They don't see anything in between that. Yeah. And so I think as we've got more and more physicians that are not only aware that it exists, but also actively learning how to do it, I think it's gonna help physicians be more aware that it's something available to them.
I've talked to a lot of people who are getting into this mediation. [00:16:00] Place and they're really finding it's such a matter of getting the word out that it's available to them. So have you worked in that space already? Have you mediated some of this?
I think it's going to become much more prevalent because CMS.
Has started their PSSM program or their patient safety structured measure where they're going to start, publicly scoring, hospitals on five different domains of, A comprehensive and integrated patient safety. And one of those domains is, defined evidence-based communication and resolution program.
And they quote the, AQS Candor Program or the Agency for Healthcare, research and Qualities candor program, which is really a pre-litigation early dispute resolution, program. And so mediators can be a key component of any one of these programs.
And I [00:17:00] really hope that as this becomes something more formalized, that it's going to push hospitals to make it available.
I think that's gonna really get the word out there. So I agree with you. I'm so glad that's becoming something more formalized. What prompted you to start Clarity Med? What was your impetus to start This consulting program?
Yeah. as a board certified coach, but also as the Vice dean for faculty, I deal with conflict resolution, but not a lot of faculty, will.
Come to me and because of my position and my role, and share their problems and concerns just because of my role. So I like doing that and I want a little passion project on the side so I can do some coaching and, can help folks.
Certainly if people do come to me in my role, I also help, co-direct our peer coaching program. So if somebody has a faculty at our school and wants coaching, I give it to them for free. I mean, it's just part of the benefit of employment. The other is to really [00:18:00] get involved in this pre-litigation early dispute, resolution.
I can't do that in my own health system because what happens is, a bad event, a harm event happens, millions of them do, annually in America. And then, the hospital can go to the patient and the family and say, Hey, here's a list of mediators that we have.
You pick one. Mm-hmm. And they'll come in. let's work through this situation together. And certainly to do that role, you can't be, a member and a leader in that healthcare system. So, you have to be on a panel of mediators at other institutions. So it was really for those two reasons that we started Clarity Med Strategies, and we also do a lot of, leadership.
Education, and do that for other entities and other societies and things. So it's a passion project for me on the side. that, I don't know, maybe someday will become something more, as I, enter years of maybe wanting to slow down and transition to private practice.
I love What I [00:19:00] do right now, but for right now, it's a passion project.
And it's a wonderful passion project, especially the fact that you've created a space where you can step out of your academic dean's hat and put on just a straight mediation hat and you give people more access to what you're offering.
But she said something really cool, and I wanna come back to this, that we have talked about how a lot of times conflict interpersonal difficulties, or sometimes the springboard for people seeking coaching. But it doesn't have to be that way. Sometimes it's just a matter of being in a place where you feel like you could improve those skills.
Maybe you've learned some of this stuff already, but you're wanting to be in a space which you get better. And one of the quotes from your website that really spoke to me was maintaining career growth requires nutrients. Relationship, mentorship, allyship, sponsorship and coaching.
But I love the idea that we're actually feeding a skillset by becoming more self-aware, by learning how we work through these [00:20:00] processes. Because sometimes I think it's not that we're even bad at conflict, maybe we're just not, one of the worst faculty members. Maybe we're not constantly getting written up, but yet there are things we could do better.
Are people starting to seek you out, not because they're in a bad place, but because they could feel like they could be in a better one?
I think so. And we have. At Pitt in UPMC, we have a peer coach training program. which we run twice a year. And what it does is it's meant for two kinds of people.
It's meant for leaders, division chiefs, section heads, chairs. Managers, program directors and heads of large labs, PIs, where you can become a peer coach. And what that is, is it's equipping you with the skillset and the steps of a coaching conversation. And,every parent. Should take this course.
Yes. Every leader take this course. It should be like [00:21:00] mandated marriage, training. And, and it's the steps of having a meaningful coaching conversation and a skillset, as I said before, deep therapeutic listening, powerful questioning, reflecting and mirroring, naming and labeling, and reframing those five skills of a coach makes you a better.
Lab director, better division chief. Better. Any leadership role. So it's leadership training, that is just basic leadership training. And then the other group are those who say, Hey, I wanna help my fellow faculty members. I wanna help the medical students and the residents.
And they become a peer coach and then they work in our peer coach program which is again, any. Medical student, resident, fellow, or a faculty can reach out to our office and say, I need a coach. I want a coach. They're paired with a peer coach free as a, benefit of being part of our family and
Help them, in that way. So I think people are recognizing that is a leadership [00:22:00] skillset that's critically mm-hmm. To success.
Oh my gosh. I love that. And I really would love to know like if there was a way that you could, as people go through this peer coaching program, do they find that when they do encounter conflict, they're more comfortable working with it when they see other people encountering conflict?
If they feel like they're in a place where they could coach somebody through it, it would be really interesting. Have you ever looked at that, whether or not some of this. conflict confidence gets better as people go through this peer coaching.
That's a great question.
we have not specifically looked at that. Mm-hmm. However, we are just finishing a mixed method, prospective analysis of peer coaching and its effects on the coach and the coachee. Now there's. Ample data, robust evidence that, JAMA just published a great article outta Harvard that looked at this, which is exactly what we are doing.
It kind of scooped us, but looking at the professional [00:23:00] fulfillment and engagement. And burnout. with coaching both on the coach and the coachee. Right? So you take out a very standard, robust survey before on levels of burnout, professional engagement and fulfillment. Before and after coaching and in this JAMA article and our own study is showing benefits both to the coach and the coachee.
So I hope that is yet another benefit. I can't help but be right. I mean, if you are skilled in that tool belt of those five important, elements, then it's gonna have to have a positive impact on conflict and the ability to be a more effective communicator.
Absolutely, and I think as you're seeing more and more of large academic centers like Pitt, Harvard, that are actually employing these kind of programs, I think you're going to naturally start to see these benefits and then the next step as you quantify this and then eventually [00:24:00] publish it.
It's gonna be much easier for other hospital systems to buy into it. I think you're seeing that, like you said, with CMS actually wanting to have formalized programs with conflict resolution, because those benefits are so far reaching. It's not just a personal professional, it is the culture that's being created.
It's the safe psychological space that's being created. But it's also this idea that ultimately we're decreasing burnout and improving patient care, that all of these things are interconnected. So I think it's so cool that this research is out there and hopefully maybe even with Pitt, you guys can actually start to research that.
That'd be really cool. So much of this too, I think is creating a culture. You know, you're actually changing the culture at PIT as you're doing this kind of peer coaching and making it more far reaching. Have you had any comments from anybody, faculty, residents, students saying that maybe they feel like this is become a more psychologically or culturally safe space as you've kind of introduced this peer [00:25:00] coaching?
Well, with the study that we've done, On the effects of peer coaching, we are seeing some of that. We haven't, in general looked at that. But that would be a great, thing to study and try to assess the culture, moving forward.
I would absolutely think it already has benefited your culture, having people in leadership that are going through this program because so much now, I think what we're starting to see is needing to create that culture, not only for the psychological safety and benefit of our trainees and our students and our faculty, but also for retention of these professionals in the system.
You know, we don't want to. Have all of these people going through this educational system only to find that they're actually leaving because they feel like the burnout and the stress that's resulting from not having these skills is drive them away from practicing medicine. They like practicing medicine.
They just don't like what's going on while they're in that workplace.
Yeah. that's true. and I've seen some of the comments on our, [00:26:00] qualitative portion of the assessment of our program, comments such as, mm-hmm. Without the peer coaching, I would've left, the enterprise.
So that's really meaningful. you know, in the world of burnout, there's lots of evidence to prove that it costs about $900,000, to replace an academic physician. So if you're burning out your people and your turnover is great and folks are just leaving your institution or medicine altogether, that is a huge cost.
I mean, that is part of the cost of burnout, to the enterprise. Not to speak about the cost to the individual, but it behooves institutions to address burnout and engagement because, if nothing else, it's just a good financial decision.
Yep. And sometimes, you don't wanna actually have to use that metric. You shouldn't have to, right? You shouldn't have to tell a big institution, look, it's gonna take you 900 grand to replace this clinician. That's clearly burned out because we haven't been able to provide for them [00:27:00] the ability to have a safe psychological space.
But sometimes we have to use those metrics, right? Yeah. If we're trying to convince institutions, it's like it takes $58,000 to replace a nurse, and if you're turning over a whole department because of the stress that's going on in that department, that's a huge financial cost. Not just in terms of losing that person, but in terms of training and recruiting new people.
And yet, sometimes that's the metric we have to use, right? To get people who maybe aren't directly associated with clinical medicine to see how important this is. If you could institute. One change or let's say, you're talking to a peer. This is somebody who's sitting down with you, they're burned out, they are definitely not sure if they wanna stay practicing medicine and you get one thing you get to share with them as a potential coach.
What would you share with them?
Wow. One thing, I would try to convince them to get into coaching.
So that they could find help, [00:28:00] And help them gain a different perspective. Have them. Get some insight, have a transformation, have them get an elevated perspective, have an ability to do some inward exploration and, that joy, of life and profession again.
And so I would, try to, help them. Get interested in getting coaching.
I love that. Do you ever find that doctors are resistant? Let's say you've met a clinician that's really struggling, they're really having a hard time, they're getting into a lot of conflict with their colleagues, with patients.
Do you ever find resistance when you've approached those people about starting coaching?
Yeah. of course. It's like folks like, I don't need help. Well then why are you so unhappy? Right? I mean, and again, it's that self-awareness, trying to get somebody to have some self-awareness, that they could benefit from, some kind of, intervention.
[00:29:00] I think the newer generation is. Maybe more receptive to this kind of stuff, you know? Like, I have a teenager and, they're learning about emotional intelligence in high school and stuff. It's like, wow. I never learned that in the, early seventies.
I never learned about, that kind of stuff. so maybe,
I hope I definitely, agree with you. I see the younger residents coming through, and they're much more aware of how they interact personally with themselves and how they interact with the medical community at large.
They're asking questions about mindfulness. They're asking questions about self care that I don't think we ever knew to ask. I think we are having to be shown that. So I think it's one of the things that's really good about teaching and having students is that you do get the benefit of watching them go through that journey and then you start to reflect on your own.
I think that's one of the cool things about that process for sure. So it's pretty cool that they're learning that, and I'm kind of hoping that as we see more of the younger ones coming through and having that kind of focus, [00:30:00] that those of us that have been in this for a while. We'll continue to learn from them and maybe become more self-reflective and certainly avail ourselves of coaching as well.
Yeah.
Joe, it's been so great to have you on the podcast. If people wanna reach out to you or if they're interested in Clarity med strategies, how would they go about finding you?
well, probably the easiest way is just to go to clarity med strategies.com and there's a connect, link there and, I'd be happy to chat about, any of this stuff with anyone.
Fantastic, and we will definitely link that in the show notes. Joe, thank you so much for being here. It's been a fantastic conversation. The work that you're doing and especially the work that you're doing with Clarity Med Strategies, really spreading the word about teaching conflict resolution skills.
It's powerful and I'm so glad you're doing it.
Lee, thank you so much. it was great to be here. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Oh, it's great having you here. So thank you peaceful warriors for joining us on the scalpel and sword, and until next time, be [00:31:00] at peace.