Dr. Lee Sharma sits with Dr. Andrea Austin to share powerful insights on becoming a physician change maker. Learn how reflection, emotional resilience, and embracing conflict can empower doctors to transform healthcare from within, with practical strategies from her research on 15 change-making physicians.
How can physicians drive meaningful change in a dysfunctional healthcare system? In this episode of Scalpel and Sword, host Dr. Lee Sharma, welcomes Dr. Andrea Austin, to share findings from her qualitative research on 15 physician change makers, exploring how they navigate barriers to transform healthcare. From cultivating emotional resilience and listening to dissent to using storytelling and understanding organizational dynamics, Dr. Austin reveals the internal and systemic strategies that empower physicians to lead change. She emphasizes the power of reflection, or “metacognition,” and compassionate accountability as key tools for personal and professional growth. This episode offers practical advice for healthcare professionals eager to create a better system while managing conflict constructively.
Three Actionable Takeaways:
About the Show:
Behind every procedure, every patient encounter, lies an untold story of conflict and negotiation. Scalpel and Sword, hosted by Dr. Lee Sharma—physician, mediator, and guide—invites listeners into the unseen battles and breakthroughs of modern medicine. With real conversations, human stories, and practical tools, this podcast empowers physicians to reclaim their voices, sharpen their skills, and wield their healing power with both precision and purpose.
About the Guest:
Dr. Andrea Austin is a board-certified emergency physician, Navy veteran, and simulation educator with over 12 years of experience. She served in Iraq, trained military personnel at a top U.S. trauma center, and holds a Certificate in Health Professions Education from Uniformed Services University. As Simulation Director for Southwest Healthcare and host of Heartline: Changemaking in Healthcare, she advocates for physician well-being. Her book, Revitalized, details her journey through burnout. Dr. Austin chairs the American Association of Women Emergency Physicians and is transitioning to Program Director at Sacred Heart, Pensacola.
Website: http://www.andreaaustinmd.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaustinmd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreaaustinmd
About the Host:
Dr. Lee Sharma is a gynecologist based in Auburn, AL, with over 30 years of clinical experience. She holds a Master’s in Conflict Resolution and is passionate about helping colleagues navigate workplace challenges and thrive through open conversations and practical tools.
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome my peaceful warriors. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst, and I am so thrilled to have on the podcast today, Dr. Andrea Austin. Dr. Austin did her surgical training in California, but shortly thereafter, she went into the Navy.
She has served in Iraq as she's an emergency room physician and well-versed in simulations. She has been doing simulations and a simulation director in California, but she is about to transition to being an emergency room attending and head of the department, right. Program director program, Florida program program director in Pensacola, Florida at Sacred Heart, which that means she's gonna be close to me, so I might get a chance to go down and visit her at some point.
Um, she's the host of the podcast, Heartline Conversations with Healthcare Change Makers and the creator of the podcast. She's also the author of a book called Revitalized, which specifically talks about her journey [00:01:00] in healthcare change making, and I'm so thrilled to have her on the podcast today.
Welcome, Andrea. Thank you, Lee. And I don't know if you knew this about me. My middle name is actually Lee. Oh, cool. Do you spell it? L-E-E-L-E-I-G-H. Okay, cool. Cool. See, so we have that in common too. You're gonna be in my neck of the world and we share a name. Welcome. Yes. It's so great to be here today. I really have enjoyed, we were chatting before the podcast started, um, and you were kind enough to share with me an article that you had published on Siri, on Curious, um, talking about developing the next generation of physician change makers.
Um, I love the tagline of this, 'cause the tagline of this is you have to love the people to love the process. Tell me where this came from, this beautiful article, and what was the genesis for it? Yeah, so similar to you, uh, I went back and got a master's. Um, so I'll be graduating with my master's in health Professions education from the Uniform [00:02:00] Services University, the only military medical school in the country, and part of my.
Requirement to graduate was to do research. And for many of our listeners, I'm, I'm sure that's creating flashbacks, but I discovered, uh, the field of qualitative research and along the same time I was going through my master's, I became really interested in how could we, I think almost everyone listening agrees that healthcare needs to change probably everyone.
Mm-hmm. Patients aren't happy. Doctors aren't happy. And as far as like medical education goes, from my standpoint, if we all think healthcare needs to change, then we have to create more change makers, right? And not only do we have to increase the number, we should shorten their learning curve. So it took me down this process of if the system needs to change and it's messed up.
Let's talk to people that are changing it despite all the barriers. And so we did a qualitative [00:03:00] analysis of 15, attending physician change makers interviewing them about their stories, what. Types of practices they have, how are they able to do the difficult work of change making? And then qualitative analysis involves creating themes.
So then we did a thematic analysis of that, and it was just this phenomenal process, um, because there were some things that we kind of guessed going into it, but there were some nuances and deeper levels of understanding that came through that paper. Wow. You really, I think one of the things about doing qualitative research when you're picking up on words and themes is you start to see other words and themes come out.
I mean, you start mining gold where you didn't maybe think you were gonna find it. Um, one of the things that I love about this process is you were interviewing these change makers is a lot of them were having to work on the internal part of the puzzle. Um. One of the things I think you talk about so beautifully in the article is that, and you, you mentioned it before we were talk before [00:04:00] we started recording, is that the system that we're trying to change is us.
That we are part of that system that we have to sort of change internally. What kind of things did you pick up on as you were doing this qualitative research that these change makers were doing internally to sort of get themselves ready to actually be part of creating that new healthcare system? Yeah.
Well, universally, I mean, nobody said change is easy. Everybody said this type of work is incredibly hard and it takes much longer than any of us think it will. Mm-hmm. And so when you hear something's hard and it's going to take a long time, then you think about what would you need to do if you were like packing character into your bag?
Well, you would need to learn patience. That, um, you'd have to learn to set longer, uh, timelines than you're anticipating. Um, a big thing that came out of this was the [00:05:00] ability to sit with discomfort, um, and to listen to dissent. Also this emotional agility, this ability to feel really intense emotions. You know, we've all been in a meeting where you think you're presenting this great plan and then somebody just like totally chops it up and it maybe undercuts you and even says something that's not really professional.
During that meeting. And so everybody had stories like that. And so what do you do in that moment? And everyone described this ability to, not that they're all Zen masters and able to handle it at every moment, but when they're in their best selves and over the arc of their careers, this ability to really withstand those moments more, um, really came through the interviews.
Yeah. I love that part of what you picked up on was listening for dissent, that you actually, you verbalize that, you put that in the paper. A lot [00:06:00] of times when we start getting dissent, number one, we don't want it. We, we are, we're afraid of it. We don't like it. We tend to let that affect our identity. And as a result, sometimes the tendency is to wanna ignore it, but actually in terms of being good change makers and really conflict resolvers, 'cause that's a big part of this process is you have to actively engage that dissent.
And that is something that we are not good at, just as human beings, we're generally not good at that. A lot of are conflict avoiders. Um, so the fact that these change makers were actually actively listening for it, you're, you're encouraging them to don't just don't just tolerate it. Actually actively cultivate it.
And that takes a lot of resilience to be able to listen and actively do that. Um, one of the things that I think was really cool also as part of listening for dissent is that you talk about using narrative as part of a strategy that a lot of these people verbalized. Um, how did you, in terms of listening to narrative.
Did a lot of these people talk about sharing stories? They even talked about some [00:07:00] recall bias, but they were definitely using stories to illustrate their points. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one, uh, participant went so far as to do the Toastmasters program to get better at being able to tell evocative and also short.
Stories, right? We're living in a very time pressured era and everybody wants you to get to the point. So I think it's a real skill and it's different than what we're programmed to do as physicians because we're generally programmed that you pull all the evidence and you have all these evidence-based medicine articles and you create a very long and oftentimes dry.
Presentation. And when you get into the change making space in most healthcare organizations, you're not going to be speaking to only physicians. You're frequently speaking to people in the C-suite that may have more of a business background, and they're not used to [00:08:00] hearing a super dry 45 minute talk.
They're used to things being crafted in, in engaging, fast paced, um. You know, I didn't know what a pitch deck was until a couple of years ago. Um, that's more of the, the language, the energy associated with change making on the business side. You also talk about sort of the steps that people kind of have to do to really start to affect change.
And number one on that list was being emotionally invested, feeling sort of that sense of urgency, that this is something that this is important for patient care. This is also important for physician and professional healthcare, professional wellbeing, but you have to have that emotion attached to it.
Because that's kind of a good starting place for all of this. Um, I think one of the things that's also really cool about being emotionally invested is even if you're telling a two minute story to somebody, if you're emotionally invested in it, that person will get that emotion. Um, is there a difference you think, between being emotionally invested and being really angry in terms of approaching this process?
Yes. Yeah, I think anger is a really [00:09:00] good, um, activation energy. You have to learn to work through it. And I, I think about one of the participants in the study talked about some of the witnessing discrimination of her, um, own family members in the healthcare system. So she could have been very angry, um, and resentful, and I don't think that would've.
Led her to be the type of leader that she became. Mm-hmm. So I think you have to go through that emotion and there's, I mean, she has every right to be angry, um, after witnessing discrimination, but getting to that place where, um, you can be productive. Um, you know, I was angry. A lot of the pandemic. I don't think I was super productive, um, while I was angry.
Um, but getting to the point where. You're activating your agency and you can see a path. Um, and I think a lot of times anger kind of blinds us, um, and prevents us from having that more expansive mindset. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think [00:10:00] it's really hard to engage any kind of productive. Resolution or management of conflict where we're in that space of anger, like you said, it's very blinding.
There's, there's just not much we're gonna be receiving at that point. And part of being a change maker is you are, like you said, listening actively for dissent, but that's a receiving those different points of view because you need to be able to incorporate all of those things in terms of resolving a conflict.
You, you said something earlier when we were talking about that we are part of the system as being part of the system that as we see these conflicts, we can't avoid them. We do have to actively engage them, and part of that is taking ownership for some of these changes and these problems that are in our system.
Did you find that the change makers were also actively involved in taking ownership of these issues? Absolutely. So I think if you wanna be a change maker, you have to both own your own role and you're going to make some calls, [00:11:00] you're going to propose some things, and sometimes it's gonna work and sometimes, um, it's not going to, you know, there was definitely a theme of failing fast.
Um, so when you make a mistake, own it, but the ownership went beyond. The individual. It also encompassed owning organizational failures. And what I mean by that is when you walk into a new space, like saying your new program director, new department head. Mm-hmm. Right. A lot has gone down before you got there.
And you may have been brought in because some stuff had gone down before you got there. And. The self-protecting is, well, that wasn't, I didn't make those decisions. I wasn't in charge when that happened. Nobody wants to hear that. Mm-hmm. You know, if they're in your office and you're trying to tell them about a new thing that's happening, expect maybe the first five 10, depending on how much trauma.[00:12:00]
Happens in that organization, you may have to just listen the entire meeting to all the, the hurts, all the things that they felt wronged, um, by your organization or your company. And that is part of being a leader. Um, and now it doesn't mean sometimes it's appropriate to say, I'm sorry. Um, sometimes it's just holding space that Wow.
That really sucked. Wow. That had a really profound impact on you and the department. And you can also say, I am sorry, without saying it was your fault. Mm-hmm. So I would really encourage people that a lot of times, especially in our current healthcare system, there's been so much trauma that has happened that your first.
Job is really just going to be holding space, uh, for people to release some of the hurts that have happened. Wow. That's wisdom. I think that, and that's so hard to learn. [00:13:00] I think the a, the ability to respond and not react. Yes. It's probably one of the core tenets of being a good conflict manager and conflict resolver is our natural tendency.
If we are, and, and you, you verbalize it beautifully. Someone comes into your office, you know, this may be your first week on the job. They come and they sit down and it's. Three months of experience that they are venting and laying at your feet. And our sometimes natural tendency is to react to that. It's like, that wasn't my fault.
I wasn't here. I didn't have any part in making that conflict or problem. Please don't drop this at my feet, because we are feeling attacked. We are sort of internalizing that energy instead of, as you say, beautifully holding the space for it. That's all that person may need right then is for you to actually sit there, make eye contact, listen to what they're saying, and there can be a space where you say, I'm really sorry you experienced that.
Without saying, I'm sorry. 'cause it was my fault. So there is a way to do that, [00:14:00] and I actually think when you hold that space, when you respond and don't react, you get buy-in from that person. So whatever you do after that, it's like, this is what we can do going forward. This is how I'd like to approach this.
This is how I see us maybe working on these issues. If you were able to hold that space for that person and respond rather than reacting. You are going to get them to buy into whatever it is you're doing going forward. So I, I think that's such a beautiful piece of advice asking people to do that. And it's something that I think takes practice.
It's not something that comes naturally creating a pause to let people have that space. We really sometimes do have, you have to tell yourself, okay, be quiet. Be quiet, be quiet, be quiet. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. It's just let him go, let him go. One of the best stories I think I've ever heard, I saw a patient that had had.
Two really bad pregnancy outcomes with another practice. And she had changed to another physician practice and she gave that [00:15:00] physician her history and when she gave that physician the history, the first thing the new physician said to her is, I would like to apologize for the entire healthcare system for what you've been through.
I want to apologize to you. For every single doctor you've seen. Now, the previous doctors were not in her practice. She was not affiliated with them. But the first thing she did for that patient is I would like to apologize to you. And when she told me the story, like she's in tears because she said that moment to her was so beautiful that somebody actually offered her an apology even though it wasn't theirs that they needed to offer.
So that ownership, that extreme responsibility that that physician showed, literally let that patient buy back into the healthcare system. Because somebody reached out to her and took accountability. Um, and you, you really do, I think, talk about that is part of a physician's job. And you've had this in the article and I love this quote and I wanna say it 'cause I'm, and I'm reading it 'cause I wanna get it right, that physicians are the glue that binds together elements of a dysfunctional system.[00:16:00]
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was actually a quote from another article that I, that I referenced in there. Um, and I do think that quote. Sums up the way a lot of us feel, um, that the system is crumbling and that, you know, we see the human impact of that as, uh, physicians. So we try to wrap ourselves up and, and hold, you know, synthesis, trying to push the boulder up the hill.
Um, there's so many different metaphors, you know, for what we're all feeling. Um, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Um, and it is this idea that we are not fighting the system, that we're actually working within it. And so one of the things that you talk about in the article that change makers do, um. That they really develop a knowledge of how the system works.
They, they start with an internal exploration. They're looking at what's going on in here, and there's no question that as we learn about what's going on in the inside of us, we are more able to engage in conflict successfully. Because so much of the barriers to conflict [00:17:00] resolution are internal. It's our worldview, our identity.
You know, you talk about being sort of defensive a lot of times. If we have people coming and dropping these things at our feet, that. We take that personally, that becomes something that we turn into an identity based process and that's not what's going on. Um, but we still have to be cognizant of the fact that we can do that.
But you also talk about making sure we understand the system that we're in. Um, how does some of these change makers go about making sure that they understood organizationally where they were? Yeah, I mean, I think this is something physicians really need to hone in on because a lot of times we work for a physician group and we don't work directly for the hospital, and some of us are dual hatted that we then sit on a hospital committee or, or somehow involved with trying to make change within the hospital.
Mm-hmm. So it's really important that, you know, the, the rules of the road, you know, what are the policies and procedures. How does, uh, something get changed, um, at this hospital? Are memos a form of, of communicating change? [00:18:00] And also what are the regulatory bodies that we answer to? Because sometimes when you're trying to make a change and you're hitting a lot of resistance.
You find out like, okay, well this is actually an A-C-G-M-E, uh, requirement. So then that conversation goes a lot differently with an administrator because of course they wanna meet the accreditation, uh, standards. So I think the more you can learn about. How is change enacted here? What are policies and procedures, and then who is involved?
I mean, the how is one thing, but the, who is probably the most important? Who are the influencers? Um, who's been here, you know, who's the past chair of medical staff, um, or two chairs ago? Uh, because those are gonna be your guides. Um, and also have a lot of the historical knowledge. Um, a big sign of going from I think somebody really novice to more experienced in this space is, uh, recognizing historical [00:19:00] context, um, and seeking out.
'cause a lot of times, honestly, if you've had a brilliant idea. Somebody else did too. Um, and so yeah, maybe they're not as brilliant as you and you are gonna get it over the, the goal line, uh, but probably would still be a great idea to, you know, find out what they were doing and why it didn't work, uh, before you go charging in.
Yep. That's so beautiful. 'cause a key part of the process, I think of being a good change maker, being a good conflict resolver is humility. You have to be able to look at that. And like you said, it's like, you know, this is a great idea. I'm sure I'm not the first who thought of it. And having the ability to step back from that and say, I wonder who else has tried this?
Let me talk to other people who may have tried this. Let me learn from them. And it really becomes so important, and part of being successful in that way is understanding that I have to be humble about who I am, what's gone before me, and then being receptive to how can I [00:20:00] take that history, like you said.
How maybe I can accomplish something that hasn't been done before, but I'm not doing that alone. I'm learning from other people who have tried it. I'm learning from other people's perspectives. And so going into that with that humble mindset makes such a big difference in terms of accomplishing that. I think that's really, really important.
Um, this is a very personal. For you, this is a very personal journey for you in terms of being a change maker. Um, this was something that was born out of your experience as a physician? Yeah. Yeah. I would say it's, um, born out of, you know, necessity and, uh, being in the fire, you know, in 2021 when I was considering leaving medicine, you know, there was a part of me that was like.
I can't believe that I would consider leaving. You know, I was a high achiever. I wanted to be a doctor since I was a little girl. It didn't make sense. Uh, but I really had to find a new identity. And for me, that is the change maker physician. Um, recognizing that [00:21:00] there's so much going wrong in healthcare that in order to stay.
We have to be leaders, um, and we have to be advocates, um, for ourselves, our patients, and our colleagues. And so it was really adopt, um, adopting that new identity that allowed me to stay in medicine. Wow. You really took a very personal responsibility, but also you had to do some radical work. To do That takes a lot of courage.
Um, I think that's hard for a lot of us to really wrap our brains around, you know, what it takes to actually step back and say, this is something that's very important to me, to be a person that's actually creating a better healthcare system. And that process is from the inside out. I think that's a great perspective too, for people who wanna make change.
Mm-hmm. You know, it, it's very, very different to approach that process from saying, I gotta, I gotta change first. Um, be the change you wanna see in the world. You know, it's easy to say that quote, it sounds very flippant. You can buy that a coffee mug, but to actually embrace that [00:22:00] is so much harder. Um. You really got a very neat and eclectic group of specialists to do this work, um, in looking at the different professionals that you had here.
Um, it was cool to me to see all the different types of doctors and and professionals that you had. Um. A lot of them had gone and done other types of education. They had done different types of fellowships and masters and things like that. And you've done that too. You have really tried to broaden your education to get where you can actually be that change maker.
Um, is that something that you saw kind of universally in all of these specialists or all of these people that you interviewed, that they all kind of took some extra steps to build that skillset? Absolutely. And the first theme that we talk about is insatiable learning. Um, so for anyone listening, I don't think you have to go get another degree, and I'd actually caution doctors from, um, doing that because we, we already have an advance, very advanced, uh, degree.
What I would like to see happen, and I think this is already happening. [00:23:00] Medicine is changing so fast when we think about AI and the digital transformation, and maybe we don't all need to get advanced degrees, but I think we have to rethink. Our approach to medical education, and I think certificates are an awesome option that, you know, are a much lower entry point from time and money.
And then I also think looking at our residency training, that they're very well may be electives within there. That would support people gaining new skills, whether that's leadership, um, understanding informatics, innovation, um, fellowships, you know, I was just reading last night about, um, can't remember where on the East Coast, an innovation fellowship.
And I thought, wow, like that's brilliant. Like that's such a great idea. Um, and would just really, you know, I think when we look at the problems we're dealing with in healthcare. It's going to require more of an interdisciplinary [00:24:00] expertise. So I think your degree in conflict resolution, mine, master's in health, um, education, you know, it is interdisciplinary.
It covered a lot of different topics within that degree. Um, so I would encourage people to think about how do you. Level up. Um, where are your deficits and how could you, whether it's reading a book, listening to this podcast, whatever it is, um, maybe it ends in a degree, maybe it doesn't. That's such a great perspective.
I think, I think there's definitely times that you may wanna go back and get a degree if that's in your, if that's within your realm, but you don't have to. Um, there are so many ways to get different knowledge bases. And I also love how you put this. It's like what your, what's your strengths and weaknesses?
Again, we're sort of back in the space of we gotta do some work introspectively to actually figure out what we need to learn. And I know from my standpoint. I realized, you know, back in 2001 that I really wanted to understand people's perspectives that I [00:25:00] was not good at managing conflict. Um, and I knew that somehow getting some more knowledge was gonna help me and so I actually ended up doing a distance Master's where I would do.
Online work and then travel once a month and do an in-person. And I did that for a year and a half, no, actually two years. And my kids were little. I'd be writing papers, I'd be on call and labor and delivery, and I'd be writing term papers. Um, but you know, by the grace of God and a wonderful husband and two, understanding children was able to do it.
But I think it is a lot easier now. I mean, that I don't think we had the breadth of knowledge available from a technological standpoint. You know, the beauty of having ai, there's so much we can get very quickly without having to actually go get a degree. So I think it's a matter of what do I wanna learn?
What's gonna make me a better change maker? What's gonna make me engage easily and be able to help people see? What I can do to help affect that change. I think that makes a big difference. I love that so much. Um, this really is a relationship between. [00:26:00] Introspection in the system, you're actually where you're connecting these.
Um, if you could give one piece of advice to somebody who wants to become a change maker in healthcare, it's like, I just want, where's a place people can start? It's like, I wanna be that person who's able to create change in the system. How do I even start that? Yeah. I, I love the phrase that you said as the lead up to that question is.
Introspection Plus is organizational. So where's the, the bridge? So the one word I would say is reflection. Carving out time to be reflective. And there's so many moments throughout your day as a physician, as a healthcare professional, to be reflective. You know, how did that patient conversation go? How did that conversation with a colleague go if it didn't go as well as it could have?
Why, why was that conversation upsetting to you? What does that say about your own, um, individual experience? Is there a wound that has to be [00:27:00] healed? Um, you know, there's, there's so many moments to be reflective, and I think that was the biggest thing that came out of this paper. And there's this term, um, metacognition.
So thinking about thinking and the people in this study were great. They were great at thinking about thinking. Why did I do that? Why, you know, okay, I tried to do this change and it didn't work. Let me dissect that or let me reach out to somebody that can dissect it with me. Um, so, so that would be it. Um, reflect.
Wow, that's such brilliant advice. Um, I love how you talk about the intentionality of reflection, that it's not something that just happens, that we really have to be very specific about having that occur, and like you said, making space for that In our daily careers, in our daily lives, one of my favorite things that I talk about in terms of working through conflict is this concept of compassionate accountability.
Mm-hmm. That mm. When you reflect, let's say I [00:28:00] saw a patient and I really don't feel like I interacted very well. I feel like it was not my good, my best moment. I was not as co as understanding or maybe listening as well as I should have been. And I go back and I reflect on that and it's like, okay, yeah.
So that probably was not great on my part and I need to work on that. And if I've taken that time to be reflective. And I learned from it that a big part of learning from it is I have to be kind to myself in that process. It's like, okay, yeah, that was not great. I'm definitely gonna learn from it, but I'm going to get better the next time.
It was not, I was not trying to be not good in that space, but that's what happened. And so I'm going to be kind to myself. I understand what I did, and I'm going to be accountable for what I did. It's not that I'm not taking responsibility for it, and I think that's why I like that phrase so much. It's not just letting myself off the hook.
I'm not just saying, oh yeah, well it happened. Okay, cool. Duh, move on. I'm not saying that. I'm saying I'm taking responsibility for my actions. This is what [00:29:00] happened, but I'm going to be kind to myself in the fact that I'm in this space of reflection and I'm learning from it. So I think if you can combine this beautiful school.
Process of metacognition and as physicians where we can be so hard on ourselves when we make these kind of errors or when we're in a space of conflict and we don't handle it as well as we feel like we could to be kind to ourselves. As we work through that process, and I think we're much more likely to learn as you're talking about being reflective and learning from that and making that internal change so we can affect external change, that that compassion that we show to ourselves all of a sudden starts to go onto the other people that we're engaging with.
If we're engaging with other professionals, if we're, if we're kind to ourselves, we're gonna be kind to other people. And that to me is one of the fastest ways to work towards conflict management resolution. When people feel that you are being kind to them in the process, they are gonna be much more likely to engage with you.
So I, I love that that's the piece of advice [00:30:00] that you would impart to people. 'cause that's something that we all need to be good about, intentionally taking that time to be reflective. And learning about ourselves internally, I think that's the most beautiful thing that you could offer. I love that so much.
Yay. And I would just add very quickly that when we're not kind, when you have that bad interaction with somebody, ask yourself what you needed to be kind. And that may have been, well, I needed sleep, um, before I had that conversation, or I needed to have a five minute break and eat. A piece of cheese. I dunno.
You know, or have a cup of tea. Because most of the time, if you go back and, 'cause what's gonna be different, I mean, most of us will say like, yeah, I wanna be kinder. Well, that's probably your base tendency, most of us that went into medicine. So if you didn't do it, what, what needs to change? And for some of us that might be that you need to schedule [00:31:00] 20 patients instead of 25.
Yeah. Wow. Yep. That's so wise, the big it, because again, it's an internal response, but there's also a systemic expression of that response, and so I'm gonna ask myself what happened there, you know? Was I worried about my kid? Correct? Did I have something happen? Is there something else playing into my response that I need to be aware of?
And then the next time go, okay, well this was clearly affecting my response and the way that I managed that conflict. What can I do to change that the next time? I think that's brilliant. Yeah. This has been a joy. Andrea, thank you so much. If people wanna find you and want to ask further questions or if they want to buy your book, how would they do that?
You can head over to my website, Andrea Austin md.com, and my handle on social is Andrea Austin, md. I'm most a active on Instagram and LinkedIn. Uh, the audiobooks out. Uh, so just search for my name, Andrea Austin, revitalized on audible. Done so excited, and we will have those in the [00:32:00] show notes as well.
Andrea Austin, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It has been wonderful to talk with you. This has been so educational, I think for all of us who want to affect change in the healthcare system. It is a wonderful, wonderful place to start and just such a. I'm very inspired after listening in our conversation.
I can't wait to start trying to plus you. You've encouraged me to be more reflective in my daily life, so thank you very much. I love that. And thank you Dr. Sharma. And just one last little thing for the person out there, conflict stresses people out. But remember the when conflict's not happening, there's often apathy and apathy kills change making.
So in order for change to happen, conflict is part of the ingredient. So the next time somebody is coming at you with conflict, tell yourself like, oh yeah, we're about to make some change here. Oh my gosh. We could totally just spend another half hour talking about that. Thank you for saying that. Yeah.
Thank you for saying that. So [00:33:00] often people will look at conflict as a negative indicator. Yeah. And the fact that you just presented conflict as a positive indicator. It's like we are on the brink of making change because we are in a conflict situation. If we can just change, I mean, that's the mission statement of the podcast.
If we can change the way people look at conflict, if they can look at it as something that can be engaged, that can drive change and potentially be positive. If that's the one other thing that they take from this podcast, then I think the mission has been met. So thank you for saying that. Yay. I couldn't resist.
So go out there and have some kind conflicts. Yes. Oh my gosh. Ah, this was awesome. Dr. Austin, thank you again for being here on the podcast today. We will put the links to your, um, contacts and your website on the show notes. For everyone who join us today on Scalpel and Sword, thank you so much for being here.
We look forward to seeing you next time, and until then, be at [00:34:00] Peace.
I.